Mapping the Journey: Kelley Mirabello's Career Path from Account Manager to VP of International Markets.

This episode takes us through Kelley Mirabello's remarkable path. Beginning her career as an account manager in the pharmaceutical world, Kelley rose to become VP of International Markets, overseeing multiple P&Ls globally for a heavyweight in the medical technology
 sector. Her narrative is filled with actionable advice and the kind of insights that can only come from someone who's navigated the ups and downs of a dynamic career.

Here's what you're in for:

• How to gear up for leadership roles
• Expanding your scope from one P&L to over 20 globally
• Crafting questions that cut through to what matters
• Decision-making powered by data and analytics
• Maximizing mentor relationships

Kelley shares the strategies and mindset shifts crucial for navigating your own professional journey, whether you're aiming for the top or just curious about what it takes to advance in the med tech world.

Transcript

Tara: [00:00:00] Hi everyone, thanks for joining us today. This is the Innov8 in Medtech podcast, a show for Medtech and life sciences professionals that aims to help you get ahead in your career. I'm your host Tara Sharma, ex Medtech professional turned executive search headhunter. An owner of recruitment agency, Innov8 search for the Medtech, pharma and biotech industries with over 20 years of experience in the healthcare field. For more tips and tricks on how to get ahead in your career, follow me on LinkedIn.

Tara: Let's dive into this week's episode Hey Kelley, welcome to our Innov8 in Medtech podcast. We're really excited to have you here today. 

Kelley: Thanks Tara, looking forward to the conversation. 

Tara: So I'm going to dig into a little bit about your career pathway, because it could [00:01:00] really help people in our community who are looking to make similar gains in their career journey.

Tara: So could you just introduce yourself and give us a little bit of background on your journey to becoming an executive and leader in the life sciences industry, Kelley? 

Kelley: So my name is Kelley Mirabello. I've been working in healthcare in Australia and internationally for more than 20 years now. I started my career at Allergan and I did the normal route.

Kelley: I did the stint as an account manager. I moved into marketing. I did marketing. Marketing assistant, product manager, all through the way there. And that was a fantastic learning curve for me, particularly understanding the mechanics of business and different target audiences. And then I went to Bausch & Lomb, and I think my breakthrough role there was as commercial director where I had P&L responsibility.

Kelley: I had the sales and marketing team reporting to me. So managing those, you know, Different dynamics there. And then most recently I've been the vice president of international markets with Owens & [00:02:00] Minor Halyard. So that opened up a number of geographies for me to explore and obviously managing multiple panels around the world.

Tara: Fantastic. That's great, Kelley. Thank you so much. Gosh, really good experience to draw from. So with that kind of progression, you've gone from managing P&Ls locally to then managing P&Ls around the world. What were the key milestones or experiences in your career, you reckon, that really prepared you for a leadership role like that?

Kelley: So definitely being able to progress into it steadily, from two P&Ls to six to more than 20. I think asking questions is absolutely critical. We often see P&Ls, we think we see something within them, or someone's explaining something to us and we're not quite confident in that insight. So asking questions, and I think I was fortunate that because I had to explain P&Ls and how they were performing, I was able to help others be able to do the same.

Kelley: And, you know, Shouldn't feel like a drilling exercise. It shouldn't [00:03:00] feel like that you're being evaluated. It should be actually a journey of discovery and common understanding. So I think creating that space for those conversations to take place certainly helped me be able to manage more P&Ls over my career.

Tara: Excellent. Thank you. And in your career journey, were there any specific mentors or influences that you remember that really played a significant role in your career development? 

Kelley: Yeah, I've been really fortunate to have some fantastic mentors. I know that most people would expect a female executive to say I had wonderful female mentors, but to actually be honest, it's been some of the men that I've reported to that have been the most supportive for me and been able to give me really blunt feedback.

Kelley: And I've really looked for that. I think the key thing when you're interacting with your mentors is you really need to be open to the feedback, and sometimes that's a little confronting, but you need safe spaces with people to be able to have those conversations, listen and learn, and Learn from them as well.

Kelley: I mean, [00:04:00] I've often sat at the table and been maybe the only female or earlier in my career felt like I was the youngest person around the table. Being able to listen and learn and watch how others answer questions or maybe not answer questions, has been a huge learning opportunity for me.

Tara: Fantastic, thank you. Kelley, we actually run a mentorship program here through Innov8 Search, and I think it's really important that the mentee takes responsibility for getting as much out of that relationship as possible and treating it with a lot of, respect. How would you advise other people seeking a mentor to build that relationship and get the most out of that interaction?

Kelley: I think you need to be clear what you want to achieve from that relationship. So have some specific goals that both the mentor and mentee need to align around. I think the other really important thing is your mentor is not your friend. And they're not there to open doors for you. They're there to coach you and to guide you and You need to be able to have [00:05:00] really honest conversation.

Kelley: So what I would say is be prepared for each meeting, make sure that it's a regular event, that it's planned, it's regular, there are clear goals that you're setting for yourself and that your mentor is supporting you in achieving. 

Tara: Okay, that's really good advice. Thank you, Kelley. So now kind of going more into your leadership style, how would you describe that and your leadership philosophy?

Kelley: I think I'm pretty no fuss, it's probably a better question to ask people who have reported to me rather than me directly, but I think the golden rule is, is you do what you're saying you're going to do. I hold my team members to account on that, they hold me to account on that, so if you make a commitment you deliver to it.

Kelley: There's certainly times in business where things change and that becomes more challenging than being open and honest around that and having those conversations. early in the process, not at the end of them. 

Tara: Yeah, for sure. And in terms of guiding your leadership, decisions. What are your values [00:06:00] or principles that help you guide those leadership decisions?

Kelley: It all comes down to honesty and trust. Trust is very difficult to regain after it's been broken. So I think that most leaders would say a very similar sort of scenario. But look, I think the real test is when times get difficult. When times get difficult, are you going to be honest, open, and transparent?

Kelley: Are you going to Talk about your decisions and help others understand how you got to that point and why that might be important for the business. But sometimes it has some challenging implications for people or for departments or whatever else. So I think honesty, building trust, maintaining it and being accessible.

Kelley: But having an open door so people can ask you questions and feel comfortable asking you questions. You don't want to be a senior leader that everyone avoids. That's not going to help you. 

Tara: Absolutely. No, I love that. And it's like you said, it's so important through specifically challenging times to be more transparent [00:07:00] rather than leaving people to kind of come up with their own stories of what's happening.

Tara: That's not a safe space for anybody. So I think that's really good. 

Kelley: Our direct reports need to actually translate those messages to their teams. You've got to back them up. You've got to be visible in that. Particularly the difficult parts of the easy messages. Okay, we can all do those really well.

Kelley: But when it's going to get a bit difficult, I think that's where you've got to be a leader that supports the leaders that report to you and make sure that you really do have that access and that people feel comfortable asking you questions. 

Tara: Yeah. Okay. So really, like you said, that open door policy, helping them also have the difficult conversations.

Tara: So some of the challenges you face, I'm sure there's been many. Could you share any insights about the most significant challenges you've faced in your role as an executive of a business and really what valuable lessons you learned from them? 

Kelley: Yeah, I look, it goes back to my, commercial director role. We lost a big customer. We were put on notice that we weren't going to be their preferred brand anymore. [00:08:00] And, and it was going to have quite devastating consequences to the P&L. We actually sat down with that customer, wanted to understand the reasons why, make sure that we learned from it, but it just, as the meeting progressed, there was just that opportunity to ask, what else could we do?

Kelley: How else could we continue to partner with them in maybe a new way than we had in the past. Thanks. A lot of business on the table for us to be able to enjoy. So I think I really learned from that, that don't assume it's over. Don't assume, ask questions and take that feedback. And I think that's helped me as my career is developed, particularly when you get into difficult situations, asking questions, not assuming.

Kelley: It's over until it's over, or not assuming that someone thinks a certain way, just really making sure that you really know something as opposed to think it or infer it. 

Tara: Yeah, yeah, that you really understand something and you can only do that through asking questions and not assuming. That's good advice.

Tara: And is [00:09:00] there a, particular setback you've experienced, or maybe something like that, but a real failure that had a profound impact on your executive or leadership approach. 

Kelley: I remember a time when I didn't get a promotion that I desperately wanted and thought that I was the right candidate for. After I got over my emotions, and I will be honest, I had a little cry, but it was actually starting to realize these are business decisions.

Kelley: It's not personal. And I think in that scenario, it was a promotion. I thought I worked really well with my manager. I probably assumed that I had a bit more of a foot in the door than I actually did. And really being honest with myself about what skills I had to acquire to get to that next phase. It was earlier in my career, in all honesty, that the candidate that got the job hadn't more experience than I did.

Kelley: And it was Yeah, just really pausing and understanding what skills do I need to be able to take the next step and depersonalizing it, which is, can be a bit hard in the moment. Yeah, it really stayed with me. And [00:10:00] I think the other thing that stayed with me out of that experience is companies have goals.

Kelley: They have business agendas and yes, we want to support the people that work for us and bring them on that journey. And often you can. But sometimes you do need to make the best decision for the business. And when I look back at that now, that candidate was the right decision at that point in time. But, and I learned a lot from it.

Kelley: I also learned a lot of how to talk to other people. And I know that I might be letting them down that they're not getting the opportunity that they thought they were ready for in that moment. 

Tara: Yeah, I imagine it, it helps you to empathise with how they might be feeling, but then communicate almost the self awareness and reflections that you had as well.

Kelley: I had a really challenging situation in a specific market where I had a distributor who wasn't acting ethically, but it was a big distributor. They delivered, a lot of revenue and, we've been with them for a long time. And it's when you're really put in that situation that the right thing to do is obvious.

Kelley: Thanks. Thanks. But the impact on the business is going to be negative. And so I do think those times [00:11:00] where you've really got to go on, this is integrity over outcomes and how you explain that across the, particularly upwards in that year, put a lot of pressure on our budget, but I do think they're the moments we talked about leadership earlier.

Kelley: I think they're the moments when you're really tested, but it enabled the rest of the team to say, we will call out. bad behavior, unethical practices that, that as a U. S. company, we would not have supported. So, yeah, that one stays with me. That did hurt that budget that year, but it was the right decision.

Kelley: It was absolutely the right decision. 

Tara: That's it. And they're those tough decisions, aren't they? And really that kind of leads me into that next question is, how do you approach making, you know, those sort of tough decisions in your position? 

Kelley: Yeah, I really like data. I think that data and facts are really important when you're making tough decisions.

Kelley: You're never going to have the perfect data set, you're never going to have all the answers, but you've got to distinguish between what you know and what you think, or what you know and what's an opinion, and be really honest [00:12:00] around that. So I think when there's difficult decisions, I do like to make sure that the a large proportion of them is grounded in fact and what we absolutely know.

Kelley: And the part that we don't know that we're honest about what we're assuming there and what's leading us to that particular decision. As much as lots of decisions are made confidentially in large businesses, I've always Sort of live by the motto is if all of that information fell out of your computer in front of everyone else, that you're able to explain it, that you can actually look someone in the eye and say, yeah, this is why I made the decision.

Kelley: This is how I got there. And we're going to own it. 

Tara: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So Kelley, how do you balance those sort of short term objectives for the business with longer term strategic goals? 

Kelley: You definitely need a mix of both. I think the operational element always pulls you back to some of those shorter term goals rather than the longer term ones.

Kelley: I like to be really clear on what the role of a business unit is or a country [00:13:00] is. Some are there to full growth, some are there to, Your profit that they're different roles and responsibilities around achieving objectives. So I think being really clear on what that role is definitely making space for those longer strategic initiatives, making sure that we are actually parking time to think about the future and where we're going as much as what needs to be done now, which is often more urgent and critical. So I really do encourage teams and organizations to dedicate real time to strategic initiatives, break them down into smaller bite sized pieces, so you can actually see the progress. It's hard when you're working on a three year goal to make sure that it's keeping on track.

Kelley: So very specific metrics, check ins on them, whether it's monthly or quarterly or whatever. I think sometimes on those biggest strategic initiatives as well, versus the short term ones, having a dedicated team on them does make a difference. It means they can focus and not get distracted with some of those day to day, week to week operational elements, which are critical.

Tara: Yeah, absolutely. [00:14:00] And I suppose in terms of these sorts of teams over your time and your career, what strategies have you used for employing and recruiting and developing top talent within your organization? 

Kelley: I think hiring managers need to be very active and present in the hiring process. Our HR business partners are essential, but the hiring manager needs to be accountable.

Kelley: I like to see job descriptions updated when we're going back to market. I think it's really important to look at the skills that you need for the role, but also the skills that you might need within a team. So you've got good balance around it. You can get into that pattern of, Hiring in a certain mold because that's intuitively what you might like, or that's what the person was before.

Kelley: But really thinking about what does the team need? And then when we get into the interview process, I actually prefer to have more of a conversation than a Q and A. You need to be prepared. You need to know what areas that you want to uncover and talk about, but you need to do it in an [00:15:00] environment that you're going to get that information on the table.

Kelley: You're going to have a good conversation around it. You're going to, learn something along the way. So, I think that's really critical, in terms of the hiring process, probably more in terms of development. I think that's a partnership between the person being developed, the manager and the company.

Kelley: There's lots of opportunities, but all three need to be really committed to it. And I would be encouraging, Anyone at any level of the organization to have a proactive development plan for yourself, be talking to your managers about it and look at ways that the organization you work for can support you in doing that.

Tara: Absolutely. I think the top people we talk to in the market, they take absolute responsibility over their development and then seek that within their organization rather than waiting for it the other way around. So that's, really good advice and getting really clear on what you're looking for when you're recruiting is so important before you start the process.

Tara: So, Kelley, how do you foster a culture of innovation and collaboration amongst your teams? [00:16:00] 

Kelley: So I think that it needs to be part of the DNA of how the company works. It's not an event. It's not a, let's all go off site and have an ideation workshop. And although those things are very valuable, it needs to be constant.

Kelley: So I really encourage my team leaders to dedicate part of their weekly meeting or their monthly meeting, whatever cadence that they have. To be talking about how we're doing things better. What problems are we encountering? How do we do things better that way? We sort of bring innovation and group problem solving to the forefront.

Kelley: I think what is important, cause you do need events from time to solve bigger problems or to get bigger cross functional teams together and have those forward thinking sessions. I think what comes really critical when you have those things is what are you doing after that meeting? How are you going to make that a valuable use of time?

Kelley: You think there are a lot of workshops for a day or two or three days, sometimes in beautiful locations. And when you look around the room and how many hours of productivity went into that meeting, you need to make sure that you're going to get [00:17:00] outcomes for it. Yeah, I think that process of what happens next, how you're going to measure results, how you're going to drive initiatives forward or evaluate them better. That really needs to be well understood before the meaning takes place. 

Tara: Yeah. Yeah. You don't lose all of that good work that you do and never execute on any of it. 

Kelley: Just people get excited and they get excited things and then nothing happens. So we've got to make sure that we've got that follow up because otherwise innovation doesn't occur. People start to pull back. They don't put new ideas forward. You want to see some traction of the right programs, the right opportunities and how they're going to move forward. 

Tara: Yeah. So from these days of ideation and then deciding what to execute, how do you pinpoint what the right ideas are to innovate and to execute on?

Kelley: It's going back to data and facts. You then need to have a more objective process. We need that creativity, no negativity, no black hat. Everything is possible. You need those moments, but then you need to put a lens on it and actually really [00:18:00] evaluate, is this the best opportunity? Could we execute against that?

Kelley: What obstacles are going to come forward in the future? If we go down that path, it is really getting into the data and the facts. I think getting a smaller team then to evaluate multiple options, matrixes, which sort of identify what's going to have the best short, medium and long term outcomes. What's going to be the most complex or simple for us to execute what the, investment's going to be like.

Kelley: I think that needs to be part of the evaluation process. It needs to be formalized and it needs to be objective and ideal cross functional team. So you're bringing different perspectives together as you're evaluating some of those more exciting strategic options. 

Tara: Yeah, that's fantastic advice. Thank you and you've been in the industry and you've seen lots of changes, I'm sure. What trends and innovation do you see shaping the future of the Medtech industry? 

Kelley: Look, I think AI is a game changer. I wish I knew more about it, but I really think that how AI is going to be incorporated [00:19:00] into product development or into service level improvement and cost, that's going to be a really rich area.

Kelley: So how do you actually utilize that growing technology? Fast enough for you to gain a competitive advantage. And I think getting the right people around who do that. Some, there, there are certainly within the organizations I've worked for. I could look to people who are just more geared that way, really engaging them and understanding what the possibilities are and probably trying to be a bit more of a first mover in that regard.

Kelley: I think the other area that's really impacting the industry is over the next few years, there's Is really gonna be how we retain staff and the changes in working environments, hybrids here to stay. I think in Australia and in a number of countries. And how do you actually work that effectively, for the satisfaction and to maintain, you know, capable people within your organization, but also to be able to manage productivity.

Kelley: Connectiveness within the organization. So I think that's moving quite quickly at the [00:20:00] moment. And I think that's an area that really requires some answers and some strategies for what 24 and 25 working environments are going to look like. 

Tara: Yeah. So Kelley, that's a great topic and one that comes up very commonly with conversations I'm having in the marketplace. From your perspective, what are the challenges around, hybrid working remaining, but also what are the opportunities? 

Kelley: So I think some of the challenges is, Hybrid working for the sales team is not the same as a working arrangement, maybe for the marketing team or the supply chain team. So how do you be flexible but equitable within that?

Kelley: I must admit, pre COVID, I was probably a sort of being the office sort of leader. I liked that dynamic. I liked the group environment that the office presented. But I think we all learned through COVID that we can still have really meaningful exchanges. We get extra productivity when we're not jumping in a car to drive somewhere.

Kelley: We get better work life balance being able to maybe have afternoon tea with the kids or pick them up from school and still [00:21:00] be back for a teams meeting. So I think the benefits are enormous. But I do think if we want to keep tea Key talent, we've actually got to ask people what they want. And, I think that the hard part for an organization is I think that flexibility, that's the part where I haven't landed yet because I do think it looks different for different parts of the organization.

Kelley: I led a team that worked across multiple. Geography wasn't uncommon to be doing a team's call at 11 o'clock at night or 6 a. m. in the morning, and you've got to, so there's different needs for different groups, and I think finding that right balance, but still being an equitable workplace is important, but I do think we need to create environments where people come together to work.

Kelley: Organizations, many communities as well, and we've got to make sure that we keep the benefits of that, but we also create an environment where people want to work and I don't think anyone wants to come into the office to do teams calls all day. So how do you make it when you are together that it is rewarding, that it is a good [00:22:00] experience.

Kelley: Yeah. I'd be interested in other people's ideas as well because I think this is a growing one and I just heard a great podcast from the Australian Financial Review on that. I can probably flick you a link to it but it was just interesting how different organisations have different perspectives and what came to mind for me was this is out there but as an organisation, as a leader, you're going to have a position soon.

Kelley: We're not going to drift into the back half of the year and still be fluid in it. 

Tara: Yeah, absolutely. It's really interesting that as we run executive round tables, and this is a hot topic in the last round table, and there are quite a lot of difference between organizations, but people are actually saying what their position is rather than leaving it quite loose and fluid now. So that's interesting. Definitely share that podcast and I can share it. 

Kelley: I think as leaders, like this is a movement that of our employees, this is actually about satisfying our employees so we can keep them for the future. I think that listening, learning and finding something that works. And we, [00:23:00] I know some companies are doing four day, working weeks and it's working.

Kelley: If you told me that three years ago, I think that I, Would have found that difficult to believe. So this is a space that's moving. And I think we've got to park some of our old opinions at the door and embrace a way of working that is going to keep the best talent that we have in the organizations.

Tara: Definitely. And I love that. I think throughout all of our questions, that theme with you is about not assuming, asking questions and being open minded to what might be working, particularly when you look in different sectors as well. And with that, our industry is evolving rapidly. It's highly innovative. It's highly competitive.

Tara: How have you always managed to keep your organization staying ahead in this sector? 

Kelley: I think you've got to look outwards, not inwards. Large organizations, multinationals, we all love our reporting and everything else, but it can make us quite internally orientated. So really got to, you've got to keep on looking outwards.

Kelley: You've got to be. You know, listening to customers, you need to be looking at what [00:24:00] your competitors are doing and learning from them, and adapting as they do. So I think you've got to stay ahead, open to change, be adaptable, listen and, give things a go, right? Most senior executives, most mid level executives, you got into the position for a reason.

Kelley: You're a smart person. If you try something and it doesn't work, you're You'll fix it fast and move on, give things a go, keep externally orientated and yeah, challenge the status quo every now and again. 

Tara: Absolutely good tips there Kelley, I like that. So obviously when you were in the position of looking after the, these multiple regions and 6am meetings, 11pm meetings, I can imagine on top of the pressures of maintaining a leadership role, which can be very demanding, how do you manage Your work life balance or some people don't like that term, but your balance, your internal balance to prevent burnout and be able to be sustainable in what you do.

Kelley: Yeah, I think you've got to look after your health and wellbeing. I think that's [00:25:00] important. I think creating space for yourself to have that wellbeing. So I used to regularly do phone calls early in the morning and then go for a walk to my local coffee shop and grab a coffee and come back. I'd often speak to colleagues while I was doing that.

Kelley: Yeah. I was very open and honest with, I'm not in front of my computer right now. Like we're walking and chatting and because I did it, they would do it necessarily go to a walk to their coffee shop, but whatever was important to them, I might've been going to a yoga class. It might've been something quite different, but I think being unapologetic in creating that space, being honest about it and.

Kelley: Yeah, I think it's critical. If we don't enjoy coming to work, then you're not going to, organisations aren't getting the best from us and it's not going to be fun 24*7. You do need to make sure that you've got that balance, whatever that looks like. I think organisations are doing a really good job now with health and wellbeing programs.

Kelley: I think as senior executives, we need to make sure that we're utilizing those programs as, so others are doing the same. 

Tara: [00:26:00] That's it. And leading by example, it's easy to be actually to be talking about these things with your staff, but then you're not actually demonstrating that you're maintaining that balance. So that's good to hear. That's how you manage that. Kelley, we have a lot of people in our network that are aspiring to be just like you and follow your career journey. What advice would you give to people that might be in that mid level management position who are aiming to reach your level in the life sciences industry.

Kelley: Being really clear what you want to achieve and having those conversations with your manager or your HR department, whoever that will be. When I got the job of vice president of Asia Pacific for Owens & Minor Halyard, I knew they did an external search, so I knew I was going to have some really stiff competition.

Kelley: But I made sure my manager knew very clearly that I wanted that job. What I knew I could bring straight away, what I knew I would have to learn, my no one blind spots. And I think [00:27:00] having, being really clear with what you want to achieve, how you want to achieve it and putting your best foot forward, what you're not going to get everything, but I think if others don't know, they can't help you and they can't give you the feedback that you sometimes need.

Kelley: So it can be a bit daunting. Sometimes I'm like, this is what I'm aspiring to, but I think be, talk to people, make sure they know and back yourself into it. Give it a go. 

Tara: Yeah. 

Kelley: I've had a couple of times people in my team where we've given them a go in another role which they thought they wanted and it didn't actually work out that way for them.

Kelley: You can think of two very specific examples there but yeah, at least they knew they had to go. They tried it. It didn't work out. They were still just as good at their previous job and the previous function that are in. So I would say find organizations that are going to help you grow, but at the same time, put your hand up, get involved and coming back to work life balance.

Kelley: You sometimes we do need to show that we can do something before we get it. So really you're putting yourself forward into projects, [00:28:00] into different teams, different conversations with different managers. I think that's really important. Visibility is really important. 

Tara: Definitely. I love that advice because again, we speak to so many people who might be kind of wanting that next step or wanting a title.

Tara: And it's like, well, there's so many opportunities in your current position to put your hand up for a project and get this experience this way. And also I love that you. went to your manager and you knew your blind spots, you knew what you needed to be working on because that level of self awareness when we're in our search projects for executive positions, that's what we're looking for is huge amounts of self awareness, not just being perfect already, because then we know these people can continue to improve and develop themselves as well as their companies.

Tara: So that's great advice, Kelley. Thank you. And From your experience, do you think there's some key specific skills or attributes that you think are absolutely essential for the level of leadership and success you've had in this field? 

Kelley: It's a really good question. [00:29:00] I think you need to be true to yourself, because there's going to be challenging decisions that need to be made.

Kelley: So you need to be confident In yourself and in your decision making processes and then willing to explain them, I think that's absolutely critical. I think you've got to have an energy to be a leader. You, people need to want to follow you. So you need to give them a reason to follow you. And I think. For me, that's the energy that, that I bring to my team, particularly when things are going to be hard.

Kelley: How we make sure that we, work through that. And I think, you know, just that honesty, when things go wrong, like we need to call it, right? And learn from it and decide which way to go. Yeah, I think they're important attributes, but I'd have to say the big one is at this level, it is highly, it's a lot of hours.

Kelley: You've got to enjoy what you do. You've got to, you've got to feel that feeling a personal purpose or a community purpose, and you've got to enjoy it. And my advice to anyone is if you're not enjoying your [00:30:00] job, make a change. 

Tara: Yeah, that's a really good advice. And it's easy in our industry to enjoy what you do.

Kelley: Plenty of companies wanting great talent, right? You've got to, it's got to be a mess. 

Tara: Yeah, that's it. 

Tara: Yov've 

Kelley: got to be the right person for the right company at the right time and all those things need to align. And if they're not aligning, they're different tribes. 

Tara: That's it. There'll be something else that aligns with your passions and values better than what you're currently in.

Tara: That's really good. Just digging into that a little bit more. If somebody is aspiring to this pathway, they are seeking feedback and they're given some feedback to say that they need to work more on decision making or need to be able to have more. presence or ability to inspire others, as you talked about.

Tara: Do you think those skills can be worked on and improved? 

Kelley: Yes, yes, absolutely. I think that if you have a drive to achieve something and you've got to learn a new skill or enhance one, I think that absolutely can happen. And I think that you've got to maybe put yourself sometimes in those uncomfortable positions so you can learn that skill.

Kelley: And that [00:31:00] might be a sideways step to start off. But I think that absolutely people can learn any of these skills and we need diversity, right? Senior executives need to look different, they need to think differently, we need a diverse group around the table. It's been shown in research that leads to much higher performing teams, but it does actually bring conversation and respectful challenge to decision making, and I think that's really important that creates seats at the table for lots of people, with that mindset. I'd encourage people to find organisations and leaders that think that way and promote that way and go on the journey with them. 

Tara: Excellent, thank you. And can you share any exciting projects or initiatives you yourself are currently working on?

Kelley: I've just taken a bit of a break from work, so my exciting initiative is actually just reconnecting with my family and friends, which I'd neglected for a little bit of time. But what I did learn out of that is, I thought that I'd probably not [00:32:00] act from this level of work, but what I really did discover is I actually really enjoy it.

Kelley: I miss it and I enjoy it. So that's what I'm working on, how I get back into that. But yeah, so I think probably watch this space. 

Tara: I love that. I'm definitely watching this space. And what are your kind of more personal goals and aspirations for the future? Other than what we've just talked about.

Kelley: Yeah, so I certainly have some fitness goals at the moment. My husband and I are just about to go on a 50 or three day hike. So short term goal is to make sure I'm fit enough to carry that pack and to do that. But longer term goals is taking a little bit of time out of work has given me the opportunity to read a bit more and to learn in new areas.

Kelley: And I hadn't done that for, hadn't actually challenged myself with new courses and new programs. And so being a student again is humbling at times, but yeah, I'm really enjoying that learning journey.

Tara: Oh, lovely. And to finish off Kelley, first of all, thank you so much for all your time. Loved asking you questions and learning more about your journey and I'm sure you won't mind if [00:33:00] people want to reach out and connect with you on LinkedIn and perhaps ask a few more questions. 

Kelley: Very happy to. I had a bit of extra time at the moment, so very much would encourage that. Thank you. 

Tara: You're going to be bombarded. Thank you, Kelley. Goodbye. 

Kelley: Thanks a lot, Tara. Bye.